<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
But there is another way to develop this kind of RM-without adding weight at all and much less expensive.
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Yep there sure is. Do what you always do, talk about it to ad-nauseam, build nothing and sail nothing.
Peter
Peter, as I 've said before I think it is a shame that your reaction to new tech stuff has to be personalized in such an offensive manner.
Anyone can go to my website and see what I have already done and read comments from people who have actually bought and paid for my boats.
The technology that I use on my own boats is posted here so that anyone with the skills can do the same thing and to give people an understanding of how this stuff works.
I post details and you post persona attacks like a few others have; to what gain? How in the world do you think you are helping Steven or anyone else by behaving in such a manner?
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
and everyone can see on your website, that no updates were made for “years”…
Wis
_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _
_/ <font color=“red”>The “hostile” one </font id=“red”>[;)] _
I’m sorry Mr. Schock but your information is incorrect: a new section of comments by customers was started two days ago and more comments will be added over the next few days.
In addition a new section is being prepared for the THREE remarkable little CK trainer’s and others(two revolutionary model race boats)will follow in the months to come…
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
Hey Doug have you considered for one second that everybody on this forum is tired of reading your advertising posts relating to your technology?
I have said it before maybe it works—so what. Some people, me included, want to see facts, on the water proof, not your words.
I have also said in a previous post that I will shutup about your ideas when YOU prove to me, against other boats the same size and from the same recognised design that your ideas are advanced. Until such time expect more of the same.
I have seen a cat with a very simplistic movable ballast system. The same guy has a canting keel on a 10 Rater. He doesn’t rant and rave about how good it is, his words in fact are “it helps a little”.
You will probably want to now know the in’s and out’s of the systems. My question to that is why? He built his own, put it on to the boats and SAILS the boats.
If Steven wants to listen to you that’s his business. If he doesn’t like my ideas fine, I’m not going to lose sleep over it and I’m certainly not about to try to convince him that my ideas are the way to go. He obviously spends plenty of time checking things out and building what he considers to be what he what’s.
This post of yours that say’s you MUST have a retractable foil system is absolute crap. YOU don’t even know if the thing is any good, YOU haven’t built one.
There is alot of BS posted on here, and under it, if you look closely is the real good idea sharing stuff. Unfortunately the longer you are allow to keep posting the piles of BS are only going to get bigger.
Peter
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
Actually, my sources tellme that a movable ballast boat did win a major European championship.! <hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
“SOURCES” = like the un-named AMYA “offical”?
Who - what event - where are results?
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
Doug - the moving ballast is on a two dimension axis… it moves on the “X” co-ordinates meaning side to side, and it moves on a “Y” axis meaning front to back. How does a 2 winch system, when it is controlling a mainsheet ALSO have the ability to proportionally move the weight xxx inches on the “X” axis AND AT THE SAME TIME, move the weight yyy inches on the “Y” axis WITHOUT changing the trim of the main sail.
If one turn of each winch moves weigh 2 inches… How does one get the weight 4 inches OUT from center and 3 inches BACK toward stern, without changing sail sheeting?
I’m no engineer, but give me a break here and explain how you can do that - and even better - how can you see the ballast postion at 50 to 125 feet from shore? You can’t count revolutions, you can’t see distance of inches that far away?
Is this really more B.S.? I almost wonder if you have even sailed a boat around a course with this system working? More theory and no proof? Most of us have problems trying to determine distance from a mark rounding, and you are “suggesting” that incremental moves of the weight are possible to be seen from that far away? This clearly is one of your projects that needs to be demonstrated!
<center>“SHOW US - DON’T TELL US!”</center>
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
Anyone can go to my website and see what I have already done and read comments from people who have actually bought and paid for my boats.
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Hmmmm - let’s see…
One owner refuses to discuss your boat because he needs more information and to publically discuss it would end the possibility of that for fear of offending you.
Another owner doesn’t even sail the boat he bought from you do to poor performance.
Yet another owner had his boat up for sail and was very lukewarm when asked why it was being sold !
Mr. Dick:
1)you go with the fantasy owner reports ; I’ll post the actual owners comments on the website!
2) you misread the post on the PBS:
a) type one- moving cart with fixed rack-requires two winches -not connected in any way with
MAINSHEET.
b) type two- moving cart with moving rack-requires TWO winches -not connected in any way with MAINSHEET.
c) a modified version of either above type that uses the mainsheet winch to move the whole unit fore and aft.Disadvantage: you can’t independently move the PBS fore and aft-it moves f&a only when the main is eased or sheeted. AS STATED IN THE PREVIOUS POST THIS IS NOT IDEAL AND A TOTALLY ENCLOSED TWO WINCH SYSTEM IS BEST-not connected in any way with the mainsheet and designed so that both winches are in a sealed module.
For a picture of an actual PBS(type 2) go to the website under innovations(www.microsail.com).
Trapeze Power Ballast Systems have been experimented with by me on two 36" scows; one production Melges 24 model(picture on site); one 50" skiff type proto and on two multihulls: a 50" cat and a F48 cat.
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
Do you even READ ALL of the post before replying?
Try again … and explain:
<u>I SAID:</u>
Doug - the moving ballast is on a two dimension axis… it moves on the “X” co-ordinates meaning side to side, and it moves on a “Y” axis meaning front to back. How does a 2 winch system, when it is controlling a mainsheet ALSO have the ability to proportionally move the weight xxx inches on the “X” axis AND AT THE SAME TIME, move the weight yyy inches on the “Y” axis WITHOUT changing the trim of the main sail.
This means that 3 WINCHES ARE REQUIRED to control the mainsail, “X” AXIS movement “Y” AXIS movement, Mainsail control… A 4th. Winch is required for separate jib control if desired, and a fifth channel is needed for rudder control !
Which is my point - all this and the cost goes sky high over an already steep price for a multihull. Where is your BEGINNERS SOLUTION?
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by Dick Lemke
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
1)you go with the fantasy owner reports ; I’ll post the actual owners comments on the website!
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Fantasy owners? Hardly - but not stupid enough to <s>piss</s> tick you off in public either! Can you provide the email for the German owner please?
David sold his boat. How many one-design races did David participate in? I have specifically asked David when he brought the boat to Minnesota - NONE was his answer as I recall. He further lamented a bit about lack of competition.
NO F3 Comments? Surely one of the four owners could have posted.
And your web site still say this: EXACT QUOTE: !!FLASH!! our multihull line has expanded to include our X3 hydrofoil <font color=“red”><u>with</u></font id=“red”> Quick Trac foil retract system and the F3 is still also available.
Hmmmm - aren’t you posting it will be available in the near future?
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Steven - please take note of the following facts - and their dates:
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>[i]Last updated: 10 August, 2003
microSAIL! is proud to announce we’re in the final developmental stages of our X3 hydrofoil trimaran.
The boat is similar to our F3 in appearance (using the exact same outside hulls) and pix of the foiler version will be here in a month or so[/i]<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
Now let’s see …
1- AUGUST 2003 - Now MAY 2004 = almost 9 months to the day and nothing ! (Heck - a baby can be born sooner than Doug can produce a boat or post photos !) BUT - <s>they</s> <u>HE</u> was in his final stages of development at the time of the post!
2 - “The boat uses the exact same outside hulls as the F3!” Where is the development - in the main hull or in the foils? It takes over 9 months to develop a main hull or retractable foils when he was already in final stages of development?
3- “Pix of foiler will be here in a month or so.” It is now 9 months - and still no photos! See #1 above.
Steven, as you can see, Doug is very prompt in his development promises, and should you decide to purchase one of his boats - well, I think the record of Doug’s facts (direct from his web site) speaks volumes. He is now proven to tell lies. Is that the kind of boat builder <u>YOU</u> want? What other lies will be told to you after he has your money.
I know it’s your money, but good luck if you elect to go this way. Only one step short of being another “Ernst” ! But have no fear, he will at least reimburse your money (maybe with interest) - and you will still be where you are today - <u>without a boat!</u>
My advice is to think hard!
[:-banghead][:-banghead][:-banghead][:-banghead]
Feeling put off with multis yet Steven? Reading this, I am getting that way! The boats are great, the politics suck, well in the US anyway.
Grow up people.
Luff 'em & leave 'em.
Our website specifically says:“Coming in 2004” regarding the X3. That boat is a new development and was delayed due to production of other boats.Read the comments on our website and when you have any questions ask me. The X3 wil be released when it is ready;it will break new ground in production rc multihulls.
But nobody that has the skills has to wait- I have published information on this site that along with guidance from me can allow a retractable foiler to be built w/o having to buy it from anybody.
Same with movable ballast…
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
Nice try - spend more of your time updating your web site rather than making posts about stuff yet to be delivered! Even the car companies show prototypes !
By the way - MY POSTED QUOTES <u>WERE</u> <u>FROM YOUR WEB SITE </u>!
David Goebel and I try to keep the website updated; I apologize for any confusion that may have been caused and will look into it. As with any website check with the person behind it for the most current information.
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by Matthew Lingley
The boats are great, the politics suck, well in the US anyway.
Grow up people.
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Ummm - which boats are those Matthew? The ones sailing and built by others, or the vaporware by Doug Lord taht is only talked about and promised … some time in the future?
By the way - didn’t you know I’m the self-appointed <font color=“blue”>“Multihull Advocate For Anti-<s>Bull****</s>” </font id=“blue”>errrr make that <font color=“blue”><u>“Bullpoop”</u></font id=“blue”> from Doug Lord? Says so right here on this card I was provided! Honest. I’ll post some photos of it … some time in the future!
Besides, someone here has to identify fact from fiction? Busy job having to keep shoveling Doug’s mess into the spreader!
Steven: I would love to hear more details about your test tank, wind tunnel and monohull models. A tunnel 6 meters tall (about 18 feet?) sounds pretty impressive and functional towing test tanks are a pretty high tech and pricey item to have for designing model boats. Sounds like you might be well ahead of most of us here and wouldn’t need any help in designing a boat. Have you raced your prior designs anywhere? Would love to see some pictures particularly of the turbulators and your radio equipment placement.
By the way, where were the multihulls and monohulls you saw racing? The impression I’ve gotten over here is the Peter Birch and his group are the only fleet of multis active in Australia.
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by lorsail
I’m sorry Mr. Schock but your information is incorrect: a new section of comments by customers was started two days ago and more comments will be added over the next few days.
In addition a new section is being prepared for the THREE remarkable little CK trainer’s and others(two revolutionary model race boats)will follow in the months to come…
Doug Lord
–High Technology Sailing/Racing
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
Is that all???
Could you please give me the German’s customer’s email…so next August, I could try your GREAT boat [;)]???
I also see that you figured out how to read members profile…great…congratulations
Wis (also know as Laurent Schock)
_/ if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it! _
_/ <font color=“red”>The “hostile” one </font id=“red”>[;)] _
Roy -
I have a small (not as big as Steven’s) test tank. It isn’t sophisticated, but it does work sort of neat. Homemade, I started with a large fish tank that was discarded by the dentist’s office. Had a cracked glas wall - and is about 5 feet long 14 inches wide and 24 inches tall.
The end pane was broken but i replaced with 1/2 plywood coated with WEST System epoxy.
I installed a small patio/pond pump that moves about 2 gallons a minute. It is pointed in direction fo the length. In the middle I have two parallel baffles and the test object is hel in place between these. The water pump stream is aimed betwenn them and circulates the water.
I took a very small piece of tubing (vet supply) with alarge plastic syringe and some blue food coloring. The thin tube is inserted and is parallel to water flow as well - although it does have a tendency to disrupte water flowsome times. I can hold a rudder or daggerbaord in between the parallel panels, turn on the pump and adjust water flow, and then carefully inject the blue food coloring into the water stream directly in front of the leading edge of the foil. For a short time, the coloring can be seen moving in flow patterns around the imersed object. Eventually, the water gets to dark to see and has to be refilled with clear water. Also as noted, I sometimes get strange readings when the color injection tube slips or gets in the way.
Very primitive and homemade, but for about 3-5 minutes it works well and you can see the flow - much as Will Gorgen (or maybe it was you) who mentioned the oil on rudder idea. Since it is a kind of “Bailing Wire and Duct Tape” contraption, I’m not sure how accurate it is, but it does allow you to see side and rear views of the foil and the currents they produce while they are underwater. Hard to do that from a rowboat with diving mask on ![:D]
I tried it with my old 36/600 initially, and found the waterline stripe made from thin vinyl pinstripe automotive tape cause the water on the surface, as if flowed back, to curl down and under the sides of the hull - then straightened out and flowed smoothly to the rear. I have since removed the tape! [:-banghead]
I have to think a more scientific approach could be done and a better tank made, but it suits my purposes, and I found out some stuff I hadn’t seen before from above the water or along the shore.
Just an idea Roy, if space permits one to build such a thing. Wife is eyeing it up lately, and I fear it may be headed for the dumpster ! Oh well - it was interesting.