Simple wing sail

well it got to 40* today. the high winds yesterday left me with a nice 3-5 today…

don’t think the boat was any faster with the wing… i think the extra weight aloft is a penalty…

maybe a redesigned boat with a bit more of skiff profile with some hard chines… i think i will cut off the deck of the albacore and get rid of the open transom and make it a flat top boat…

no commentary on the videos, and I will apologize for the squeaky servo… I had dogs running for miles around… on the tack in the lighter air the mast flipped over nice and occasionally I had sheet out and sheet in to get the hinge to flop…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m-nQHDY2s8&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roLdRGL8P4M

Looks great Marc. It might not be faster yet, but there must be plenty of room for optimisation.

Marc,

It looks like your system for setting the flap works nicely, but I wonder if it might be improved with the addition of some elastic and a post on the deck as shown in the figure below?

Jim.

problem is with the elastic if it a real light air…it probably would not cross over completely…

more likely a refinement and making the pivots a bit more slippery would solve the problem.

Yes, that would be a problem. There must be some simple device which could change the state of the wing on crossing over. Perhaps there is some sort of clockwork mechanism?

I’ve been trialling my second wing, with limited success. It doesn’t seem to perform as well as my first one. I think that by introducing more complex tapered shape I may have produced a poorer aerofoil.

Some footage below:

//youtu.be/m-1MY-wAzGo

These will be the final tests with the current boat. I’ve decided that 3 servos in a 400 mm boat is too difficult to work with. I’m trying to decide whether to increase slightly to 500 mm or go straight up to 650 mm. In the meantime, I plan to continue working on the wing design using a heavy, slow landsailer.

It has occurred to me that if a boat has a wing sail and no jib, it is possible to place the mast anywhere alone the wing (ie, aft of a conventional mast). The further aft the mast is placed the more the front of the wing will protrude from the centreline of the boat when sailing at an angle to the wind. I’m wondering if this would reduce heeling when sailing across the wind, and reduce nose-diving when sailing down wind and what other consequences there might be (C.E. for example)? Exagerated example below:

CE = Center of effort. CLR= Center of Lateral Resistance

The hull won’t point as high when going to weather. You will be “footing” when trying to sail up wind. You can move the CE backwards, but it needs to stay in relation to your CLR otherwise you will have a LOT of unwanted weather helm, where major rudder angles of attack to keep the hull from heading up will result in loss of speed. You can move your CLR towards stern and also your CLR towards stern, but rudders are in a fixed position so you will wind up with very “twitchy” steering. The longer the distance from your CLR to rudder, the less sensitive the hull should be for steering.

Dick,

Could you please explain this in more detail for me?

Jim.

Jim … Will give it a try, although a couple of sketches on a napkin would be easier.

Compare the leading edge of a jib between most normal r/c monohulls, and same with a real boat. On a real boat the leading edge of the jib is attached at the very bow of the boat and directly in line with the center-line of the hull. In order to sail as close to the wind as possible, the angle between the bow (and jib luff) and the direct line to the windward mark provides the direction the boat is sailing. Thus (in concept) both the leading edge of the jib, and the bow of the boat are sailing as close to the wind as possible - based on the jib luff. As the jib sheets on a real boat are tightened or loosened, the boat will be able to “head up” or will have to “fall off” to maintain same hull speed. Thus full jibs have power, but not necessarily speed unless they foot off.

Now, looking at your sketch, if the leading edge of the jib is off the center-line of the boat and to “weather” of the hull, in order to prevent a backwind of the jib luff, you would (in theory) have to foot off slightly (or a lot) to keep up the same speed. Generally, you are trying to sail with the jib luff as close to the wind as possible. If the leading edge (luff) of the jib is 10 degrees off the center-line of the hull, then to get the luff back in line, the bow would have to fall off about 10 degrees.

The offset jib is something we get to deal with on models, as we don’t have a foredeck crew to help trim the jib, keeping it flat, and luff tight. The jib boom also acts to control the shape of the jib - luff/leech tension, camber, etc. A jib without a self-tacking jib boom is very difficult to trim using only one radio channel (the other being reserved for the rudder) in most classes.

Basically, (looking down from above) if you move the jib luff to weather (like on an r/c boat) the hull bow will fall off from the wind nearly an equal amount. If you are using a wing, or even just a mainsail on your multihull, you will probably point higher into the wind (closer to the mark) than you would if you added a jib. On my big cat, I was able to sail much higher than other cats that had jibs, and was easily the first to the windward mark - but one we turned downhill, the obvious extra sail area with the jib cats would come close to catching me - if the skipper was working the boat downhill. Too many however tried to “barn-door” their boat dead down wind, and while the distance was less, deep, broad reaching and gybing downwind always paid off - unless ti was blowing so hard it was “survival” downwind. :rolleyes:

Will try to elaborate more if this still doesn’t make sense. Just look at your drawings and the middle boat, if the jib attached at center-line the wind could come closer to the bow letting the boat sail closer to the wind.

Cheers

Dick,

Thanks for the explanation, I think that I understand. Does the diagram below depict what you mean:

I’m still a bit confused regarding the situation without a jib. Would it be possible to move the wing to weather and still sail at the same angel to the wind (see below)?

Jim.

@Mij

Just wondering if you had found this site:
http://www.ivorbittle.co.uk/Articles/The%20wing-sailed%20yacht/Wing%20sailer/The%20wing-sailed%20yacht%20for%20the%20web.htm

A slightly different wing…

Thanks mrpenguin, I hadn’t come across that site.

Marc,

I’m thinking about building an RG65. Do have any suggestions as to what design might suit a wing sail?

Jim.

jim,

even though the winds were very high in texas, the skinny boats still did well in high winds. I’m not really sure if there are any good current RG designs that would really be good for a wing. to get the increased righting moment you need deeper or heavier keel, or wider boat. that coupled with the heavier wing is a huge trade-off. Too fat a hull, and its not really good in the lighter wind as a result of higher wetted surface. the hope is that the wing is a more efficient platform than that of a conventional rig…which would offset the wetted surface penalty.

I am finishing up a simitara hull is winch a wide stern design. I may try the wing on this boat as well. but who knows if my wing is really a good wing?