What Ian said. I could not agree more if I had said it myself.
The sailing instructions currently being drafted for the Rio Grande Cup (October RG65 race) address a few of these issues:
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The Race Director can protest a boat. This protects junior skippers who might be intimidated or unsure of themselves when egregiously fouled by a senior (or loud) one.
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The “No Bickering” rule: continued and unsportsmanlike disputation of protests is grounds for disqualification (last place +2).
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The “distant mark” rule. The race director may designate certain marks as “distant marks.” There is no penalty for touching such a mark on the proper side during a rounding.
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No dip starts, all boats behind the line at the 1 minute call.
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“No barging” rule strictly enforced.
Most of these were taken from the SIs for Vintage M races. M’s are large enough to do damage to each other, and VMs are typically works of art, so it’s necessary to enforce gentle sailing. Having a control area helps, so skippers are close enough to communicate without shouting, as does a reminder during skippers meeting that polite hailing for room is a way of avoiding, not causing, problems.
Cheers,
Earl
Earl - all good rules, although as a competitor I found the “dip start” was often a favored way to get a good start in a large fleet…and sometimes a port tack also could be a winner as well.
I recognize your issues with big and expensive boats - but man, I was willing to put an expensive cat going much faster in “harms way” because I felt I had the ability to a) control the boat and b) know the rules … but I will concede, some of the newer sailors … well there was a questions there !
I’d say go with yours since they make sense, they discourage the “long shot” or “flyer” and make everyone comfortable in knowing if a boat get’s loose you’re all going the same way.
Another reason to quit riding motorcycles on the highway. At least on the track, we may be going faster, but all the same way. No one doing a “T-Bone” from a 90 degree angle to traffic flow! 
Gentlemen - Let us not forget that we are discussing racing rules. Where would Dick’s motorcycle racing be without the desire to win? A “fun ride” around the track? You don’t win without some level of aggression. Now I realize that there are all levels of ability and experience out there. I’ve been to “races” where the locals sail from lawn chairs and won’t walk the pit. The rules were whatever they wanted at the time and that was fine for their purposes.
As has been pointed out, the racing rules were drawn up for the purpose of keeping boats from damaging each other in a collision. What seems to have been overlooked in this discussion is that the rules define the game as well. And as an extension from the practical considerations of the rights and limitations expressed in the rules comes the point of the game, tactical sailing. By tactical sailing I mean using the rules to gain advantage over your competitors. That is what sailboat racing is about.
Therefore if you don’t develop a working understanding of the rules you are not playing the game. How would you play chess if you didn’t know how each piece moved? In chess understanding the game in general is not that hard, winning consistently at chess can take a lifetime of study. It is the same with sailboat racing, only I think sailing is harder.
So, you get out of the game what you put into the game. It is as simple as that. If you don’t want to bother to learn the rules and how they effect your game plan on the water, then don’t. But don’t complain about sea lawyers if you come to the regatta unprepared.
Neil. Your point uis, as ever, well made. However ‘traditional’ model yachting is not the only possible game in town. If we were to play chess by different rules we might end up with ‘Leopards & Goats’ or ‘Go’ - both different but very enjoyable games.
I still refuse to be finally drawn on my position in this debate: I am sitting like the spider in his (actually normally her) web and sucking the juices of he combined brains of this forum.
The reason for my concern should by made clear. At our national championships last Sunday we seem to have had a clash of cultures between experienced skippers ‘slumming it’ from their Marbleheads, IOMs or whatever and the ‘new’ Footy sailors, who do not have the same intellectual baggage. The behaviour of the traditionalists was perceived by many of the new generation to be aggressive and rude - and this spoiled their fun.
Ultimately, this is a matter for a polite (?) word in their shell-like ears, or perhaps a little light-hearted mockery by the remaindee of the company. However, my initial question revolved around whether a degree of unpleasantness could be avoided by modifying the rules (by sailing instructions) as allowed by RRS.
There are a couple of points that a number of people who have posted on this thread seem not to have appreciated. First, a general point: in UK at any rate, the ‘open’ or ‘natonal’ or ‘championship’ events are unlike those of any other class. Because of the demographics of Footys, they are widely attended (and I do my best to encourage this) by people who have scarcely sailed before. I am sure that my dear friend Firstfooty (now second, actually) will descibe the process of being ‘angussed’. We are having to cope at the same event with the likes of Roger Stollery and Rob Vice on the one hand and ‘Fred’ who found a Footy on e-bay and wants to know what it’s about.
Quite frankly, if I’m forced to take sides, I back Fred. The Stollerys and Vices of this world are dedicated model sailors and, if they do not sail Footys, they will sail something else. If Fred does not like the scene, he will go back to building his never-finished model of a Great Western Railway 57XX pannier tank.
End of explanatio and cri de coeur.
:zbeer::zbeer:
Well, sure, but you know what you’re doing 
The problem with allowing dip starts is the “dipless dip start” where somebody stalls out for one reason or another on the course side of the line just as the bell rings and the whole fleet scatters into chain-reaction chaos to avoid the, er, unfortunate skipper. Not my idea of fun
Cheers,
Earl
Surely there is a case for two tiers of events:
Catergory “A” (Full rules)for the serious events eg. National/Regional Championships, Eurocup etc.
Catergory “B” (Simplified rules) for the ‘fun’ events,
with open meetings opting for whichever catergory suits the host club.
A lot depends on how one see the Footy, is it the means to an end or the end itself ?
The Footy Championships is not unique in having a lot of inexperienced sailors involved, most dinghy class have the same situation and most new sailors have the sense to keep out of the ways of the ‘Big boys’
Two further points
A) Why not hold a fun weekend with camping, barbeques Etc?
B) Why are the Nationals a one day event ?
Mark
In reply to Mark.
On (almost) completely factual issues:
We have ‘run’ one two-day event apart from Birkenhead - the one in Southwold. Remember it? Surprising you do - because it attracted NO entries. There are a lot of reasons for this - but the fact remains that a weekend in a very pleasant Olde Worlde seaside resort, whch is not ALL that far for London, proved unsaleable.
Birkenhead was undoubtedly a great success extended over 2 days.It would probably have been even better had everyone rested their heads in the same place but for a variety of reasons (some good, some bad) this sid not happen.
As to a fun weekend - the ideal venue is a Pub with Campsite and Rooms. Anyone have any ideas? Anyone else think it’s a good idea. Want to start a second thread ? If there’s any demand, let’s go for it!
:zbeer::zbeer:
Only an observation here Angus -
But this attitude and perception is the same regardless of what sport or activity. As one gets experienced, and basics are learned, one tends to seek more information and more education (usually) which leads to more interest. A very good lawyer friend learning to sail multihulls with his wife. We used to tease him that if we were ahead of him, threw a beer-can into the water, he would “round it to port” ! 
He went on to devour books, article and magazines on sailing. Within three years he was a sailor to now respect as he “wanted” to be the best. Perhaps it was the lawyer instinct - to “know” the rules and to use them appropriately that made the difference.
I do hear similar grumblings all the time from new sailors and also on many forums - they want fun - but they don’t like rules to race with. I’m not sure that can be done in sailing, or any sport. The rules are - ummm - what hopefully keeps things equal. Yet those same sailors wouldn’t have fun if a multihull were to beat them - or a powerboat entered the event. The problem is “what” rules are important.
If you feel they don’t like playing by the rules, don’t call it a “race” - and put out only one buoy. Then it can be “fun”. Otherwise I have a feeling attendance will be increased by some and decreased by others. I’m not sure this will ever be satisfactory to both sides. I guess you have to prick which group you want to encourage to come.
just an observation.
Dick makes the point very well, you can’t please everyone. The sail racing rules have evolved over time and been fine tuned to cover most of the situations encountered on the race course. The rules I learned as a youth were very hard to pick up. A few years ago the rules were changed to simplify the language to make them more accessible, something we can all appreciate.
Earl’s earlier post makes some good points about modifications to the racing rules for use with remote sailing. However, the Micro Magic idea of letting contact between boats on the same tack not be an infraction of the rules runs counter to the spirit of fair sailing. The leeward boat is granted certain rights (along with certain obligations) in relation to the windward boat. This is because the windward boat has the advantage of being closer to the wind and presumably in clear air. The Micro Magic idea takes away the only defense a leeward boat has, which is the ability to luff the windward boat and encourage her to stay clear.
As to more experienced sailors “slumming” in the Footy class, how do you legislate them out. “You know how to sail so you can’t play!”, in what way would that be desirable? Competent sailors should be part of the mix. Without them there will be no examples to inspire others to learn more, or, as in the complaints in other posts on this thread, behavior we want to discourage. I recall a dozen years ago sailing in a trophy race out on Long Island. I was rounding the last leeward mark which integrated a gybe with sheeting in and I really nailed the rounding (this maneuver can really propel your boat around the mark, especially with a swing rig). I noticed two of the local guys from the club I was visiting sitting on a bench talking. When we made eye contact one of the guys said, “You sail so smoothly, its like dance!”. That compliment stuck with me all these years because it was both unexpected and showed me that guys that felt they shouldn’t be on the water in a big race recognize and appreciate skillful sailing. Perhaps the next time they went out sailing they rounded the mark more crisply, at least I would like to think so.
The best way to encourage participation in racing is the same way we’ve been doing it for boat building and design ideas. We have to nurture and mentor those new to Footy sailing that are open to accepting help and understand that the game we play with these boats is deeper than just a set of road rules. In the other classes I’ve been involved in all too often it seems the new guys are left on their own to sail about willy-nilly without a clue. Improving boat handling skills and explaining race strategy are areas that we can help in. But a new person’s success depends largely on their commitment, we have to try to encourage them to be like Dick’s lawyer friend, to want to participate and improve their game.
The tone of a regatta can and should be set by the race official. Overly aggressive sailing or rudeness should be defined prior to racing (in the sailing instructions for major events) and standards should be enforced consistently. More experienced sailors should be encouraged to help the newer ones, this is good politics and creates good will and a “fun” atmosphere. In addition, no animosity should extend beyond an individual heat.
There are a lot of ways to maintain the Footy spirit when we race without “dumbing down” the racing rules. Most of all we need to apply the free exchange of ideas and assistance that we’ve cultivated in this class to these other areas of the sailboat racing experience.
I like this analogy. I hadn’t really thought of sailing as a game. I often objected to the rules being so fussy and thought a lot of them where unnecessary. But if you look at it like a game where the rules make the game it becomes much more interesting. I will be making more of an effort to understand and follow them from now on.
Thanks Niel
Don
I have always appreciated that sailing is a game and that the rules condition that game. However, may I extend the analogy by reference to the game of Mah Jong, a game of which I am very fond. There are a variety of forms of Mah Jong, the most important are Chinese and American. Both use the same hardware (a set of Chinese dominos) and the basic rules are the same. However, the American game has a large number of extra rules, which gives it a completely different character. The Chinese game is a fast, fun, gambling game that anyone can learn quite quickly (dspite all the pieces being labelled in Chinese). The American game is slower moving and much more complex - basically for those who think bridge is for thickos - and you are not going to pick up any more than the rudiments in a weekend’s playing (i.e. the Chinese game!).
I think the parralel is almost exact.
Another point. I have spent most of m life until recently sailing vitrtually every weekend. Most of this has been passage racing or offshore racing. In that time I have NOT been involved in many protests, mainly because in such races the boats are generally so far apart that they have no opportunity to collide. However, one of those occasions was as follows:
I was racing ‘my’ mini-tonner Black Dog in the Mersey - short, round the buoys race. The Dog was a typical Richardson design of the period with a deep chest, fin well forward and a long tapering stern. Half way round the course, a complete newby in a (theoretically quite fast) 35 footer suddenly found which string to pull. He came through to weather of us, very close and obviously completely unaare of the implications. I gave him a slight ‘educational’ luff to which he did not initially respond. I had no intention of causing any problems and bore away - just has he responded to the luff. This meant that our STERNS collided, and some piece of the Dog’s anatomy tore a stanchion out of Gemal’s deck. We ended up in the protest room because HE protested US.
The point is that I as a senior member of the club, was trying to act very responsibly by showing the guy what the rules were in a ‘nice’ way. This went wrong but, until Russel (Mr. Gemal) realised what it was about, apologised profusely, retired and bought me several beers while we sat down with a copy of Elvstrom, I was intensely unpopular with many of my fellow club members.
I am not quite sure exactly where this takes us, exc ept to show that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and that unless we are very careful we walk the primrose path to the everlasting bonfire.
:zbeer:
I forgot to mention that the USVMYG also holds the Traditional Watercraft regatta for (mainly) schooners, most of which have bowsprits like many a Footy. Two (or more) boats getting fouled together into a raft happens almost always in windward/leeward situations (sailing parallel to each other) where one boat’s sprit gets tucked behind the other boat’s shrouds. Yet another reason to keep the “windward keep clear” rule.
Cheers,
Earl
Sign me up on the side of the rules as written. Yes, I know that the rules are a moving target. They are somewhat difficult for the beginner as well. I do not think that beginners should be pampered by allowing infractions that veteran sailors will avoid.
One of the reasons that we choose sailing as a game of choice is that it is a thinking mans game. Our models are an extension of the full sized racing pursuit. I remember too well, having hiked my guts out for 20 minutes on a vicious windward leg, wracked with pain, beginning to wonder why in hell I’m doing this, and all the while concentrating on some hoped for tactical advantage that is only brought about by all hands adhering to the rules. Waterborne chess it is! RC boats are a bit different in that respect. One can sail a difficult windward leg, or a roaring downhill run without the least physical exertion save the thumbs. That is sufficient pampering for beginners and veterans alike. Use the rules, do the penalty turns, issue ones protest in a gentlemanly manner (or lady like manner).
In areas where there are numerous boats, a very good rules learning vehicle is team racing. Fun too.
There are particular sporting types that might enjoy a separate Footy event that could be described as a demolition derby. A race that has no rules whatever and the devil take the hindmost. No doubt special boats would be built for such a madcap race. That could also be fun for those so inclined. Ferro cement boats anyone? I will remain an amused spectator in such events.
For Don and others interested in learning the racing rules and how to apply them to improve your understanding of the game I recommend a book available from North Sails, “Performance Racing Tactics”, by Bill Gladstone. It is a very well laid out text with drawings. Various situations that a racer might encounter around the course are outlined as examples to introduce the rules that have bearing on each situation. This way the rules, which can be dry and lifeless when read from the rule book, become clear in their function to keep boats from collisions but also form the basis of the tactical game.
They also sell a DVD that I haven’t seen but I am sure is of just as high a quality.
Most people in the U.K. seem to recommend “The Rules of Sailing” and “Rules Companion” both by Bryan Willis.
These are reissued every 4 years. The current versions are for 2005 to 2008 are now available at remainder prices as they are just about to be reissued.
I have assumed that the 2005 to 2008 versions will be O.K. for small RC sailing, and I can always update them from the ISAF website on http://www.sailing.org/racingrules.php when the new versions become available.
In the mean time you could always frighten yourself to death with the on-line equivalent from the AMYA website http://www.modelyacht.org/my/racingrulestutorial.html
Cheers,
firstfooty
In a few of the quizes they show two boats side by side going directly downwind and they say that one is windward and one is leaward. How do they figure that?
Thanks
Don
Edit: Easy situation 16 for example
Hi Don,
It is easy. Here is the definition. Note the last two sentences.
Also note that this is a ‘same tack’ rule. If the boats were on opposite tacks running down wind, the P keeps clear of S.
[FONT=PhotinaMT-SemiBoldItalic][SIZE=2][LEFT]Leeward [/SIZE][/FONT][i][FONT=PhotinaMT-SemiBold][SIZE=2]and [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT-SemiBoldItalic][SIZE=2]Windward [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT][SIZE=2]A boat’s [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT-Italic][SIZE=2]leeward [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT][SIZE=2]side is the side that is or, when she is head to wind, was away from the wind. However, when sailing by the lee or directly downwind, her [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT-Italic][SIZE=2]leeward [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT][SIZE=2]side is the side on which her mainsail lies. The other side is her [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT-Italic][SIZE=2]windward [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT][SIZE=2]side. When two boats on the same [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT-Italic][SIZE=2]tack overlap[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT][SIZE=2], the one on the [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT-Italic][SIZE=2]leeward [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT][SIZE=2]side of the other is the [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT-Italic][SIZE=2]leeward [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT][SIZE=2]boat. The other is the [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT-Italic][SIZE=2]windward [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=PhotinaMT][SIZE=2]boat.[/LEFT]
[/SIZE][/FONT][/i]