Will; Nice idea, i was thinking of a similar kind of idea, but I thought that i would be announced truly mad! Chase boat sailing would be fun, and would produce some awsome pic’s in some real open sea conditions kinda motor a few miles offshore and chuck the thing in the water for a sail in real waves…
I think going full on remote with a video feed would be seriously technical, I darsay it could be done with satilite communications, but that would be seriously expensive! (tho if you could find a sponsor or two…) As to batteries, i guess a mini wind gen would be too fragile and/or heavy, perhaps a solar panel covered deck? but that would weigh a fair bit too. That would be the limiting factor to how far you could sail the thing. Sounds cool though doesent it!
In full sized sailing you have the weekend warriors that own 20 year old Cal 26s nd race them around the cans once a week. This is the totoal extent of their sailing. Then you have the pros who skipper Americas Cup boats one year, Race Around the world on Volvo 60s the next year and win olympic medals the next year.
I think that we have pelnty of outlets in the weekend warrior types in model Sailing, but the guys who are the equivalent of pros get bored winning their local fleet races every week. These guys might show up for the regionals or nationals and win the thing after hardly sailing for a year.
I think something that tackles the next level of technology might poise a new challenge for these guys.
Imagine if region 1 threw up a challenge for a race across long island sound once a year. Set out some simple rules for the RC equivalent of a maxi boat (70 to 90 inches long, tons of sail area, unlimited channels, etc). Then you would have groups of guys, maybe all from one club, banding together to build this monster boat. This “syndacate” would test and develop their design over the course of maybe a year or so. The Format of the race would allow each team to follow their boat with a RIB or some other small boat. They would be allowed to stop and fix things along the way. It could be a really cool format. Maybe even a challenge between clubs. You could have the RC equivalent of the Volvo Around the world race. Look what that race has done for the sport of full sized sailing.
There are lots of other interesting formats as well Maybe you want to have a similar race with a singlehanded format instead of a team. What about a 24 hour race (straight line or around some circuit)
Yes, I think it would be high tech. That is part of the challenge - to come up with high tech solutions to the challenges that a race like this would pose.
Look at the guy that flew an RC plane across the atlantic. He did that with an autonomous system. Maybe that would be a good format - Autonomously sail from one point to another. Talk about a challenge!
I think there are a lot of really interesting design challenges out there that we could pursue if we were really motivated.
Two students from Princeton University converted one of my 68" Flyer? 2Meter trimarans into an"Auto-maran" where the boat sailed itself around a course!
Recently, I read in Windling World or MMI about some guys in New Zealand that have made long rough water passages with their rc boat in serious conditions. In Europe there is at least one long distance rc multihull race in which the participants follow the boat with a people boat.
I have been interested for some time in making the passage to the Bahamas with an rc boat–following it ,of course.
I think their could be two types of these boats: one around 55-60" LOA and one like the maxZ86 model as a "Challenge "model based on a cooperative effort of a club or group of sailors.I think for passage making part of the challenge would be in designing the boat to make an un-assisted passage.
Both boats could have class rules specifying Championships of any kind be held on open water of a certain size with a minimum wind strength; if despite the best efforts of Clouds Badham the weather was still light the race would not qualify as a championship -just as a lesser regatta.
Using the same technology as the newest full size ocean racers would provide exciting fast boats…
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Look at the guy that flew an RC plane across the atlantic. He did that with an autonomous system. Maybe that would be a good format - Autonomously sail from one point to another. Talk about a challenge!
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Yhea, I remember that.
I remember Jim Linville proposing something of this sort, when the plane guys where attempting their flight, after a day of sailing at the pond, his idea was to outfit a soling 50 with some kind of GPS transmitter/receiver in a similar way the plane people did and let the boat sail across the Atlantic.
It sounded great, and it got us quite interested, but no follow thru. Still I think I was a great idea.
In full sized sailing you have records for all kinds of stuff: 24 distance sailed, trans atlantic records (both directions), round the world records, etc. I think it would be really cool to have similar races for RC boats. Crossing the Atlantic as Jim Linville proposed might be a bit much, but crossing Lake Michigan or a crossing to the bahamas might be a sufficient challenge. Even some smaller lakes or waterways would be pretty wild.
How about a crossing from Marblehead to Provincetown (cape cod)? How about a race around some island (Mackinac island comes to mind for my neck of the woods).
For the RC plane atlantic crossing, they flew the landing and takeoff phases of the flight with a transmitter. We could do something similar. You could have two waypoints - one near the start and one near the finish. You could control the boat prior to the start with a transmitter, but once you reach the waypoint, you have to turn your transmitter off and let the boat sail autonomously. Then you drive to the finish area where you will be able to see the finish waypoint. When your boat comes into view and passes the finish waypoint, you can take control again for the final leg into the harbor.
Think about the technology that you would need to develop to make such a crossing. You would need to determine the relative wind direction so that you could trim your sails accordingly. You would need an interface to a GPS system for navigation. Suppose the course to the next waypoint was to windward, then you would need to add some logic to force the boat to sail closehauled and tack accordingly. You would probably need to add some limits to either side of the course so that you did not run aground while you were tacking across the rhumb line.
I think it would be really wild to work on technology to solve those sorts of problems.
Will, I may not have made myself clear: the guys I mentioned at Princeton developed software that allowed the boat to sail any course including upwind; I don’t remember if it had a GPS interface or not but it could have. I’ll LOAN you the report if you want to look at what they did…
I would very much like to read their report, Doug. Can you make me a copy? Is it perhaps available online?
I did not mean to imply that no one had ever done these things. Rather, I was salivating over the idea of bringing together a bunch of elements (some of which may have already been done in model boats and some of which might be borrowed from other fields and some of which might be new technology) and putting them into a boat for a challenge like this. Getting the basic functionality to work reliably in changing conditions, etc. Then optimizing the system to not just finish but win a race like this.
Marblehead to P-town might be a little long-too much traffic and chop in the bay as well but I could sail it to Gloucester from Mhead harbor- just need to attach some sort of boat recovery device-because if it goes down it aint coming up…that would be fun till I got it to Childrens Island then it might get boring.
I was thinking for me the north sea would be a good one, but I want to do it in a fast dinghy first! However as long crossings go the chance of success is pretty low, any kind of shipping activity about and run downs are gonna be a big problem. Hell of alot of scope for design, reefing, bailing, control, problem spotting/solving (if its gonna break you cant do much about it, but you might know to slow down!) and some kind of Tv equipment (you gotta prove you did it!). Also the cost would be mental, but hey, you get a tem going in the US and Ill start one over here to kick your ass!
As for a more normal model for chase boat sailing ive been playing with a Open sixty inspired hullform 1.4m long and very wide. Should be good for long downwinders, though it would be a dog in light wind due to the huge wetted surface. But hey, who wants to sail in light wind anyway[:D]
I used to race IODs out of Eastern YC. You should depart from the marblhead light. Getting out of Marblehead harbor would be tricky with all those boats parked there… Then again, maybe that is the challenge…
Why bother inventing yet another orphen model yacht class? Take your existing boat and try something extreme with it. Long distance racing is another challenge as a part of the radio yachting experiance. Regardless if it is fleet racing or passage making both require an effort to ensure reliability and survival. Dont talk about it do it and then tell us what a great time you had and we will all applaud you. Too much talking not enough doing.Here in New Zealand Euan Sarginson & Hugh Hobden of the Christchurch Model Yacht Club made the effort to comemmorate the centennial of that club by sailing the A class yacht William Fraser from the south island accross Cook Strait to the north island. The design was a Highlander which has been around for at least 20 years to my knowledge. Proof you don`t need to design anything new to achieve such a fine result.
Photos can be seen on the Christchurch club site.
In our own club Nigel Walls & Chris Harmer raced their AC15 with the Trailer sailers in a round the island race with some very amazed fullsize sailors. I will try to post some photos but so far the technoligy has baffeld me.
As has been pointed out several times quite a few model yachts have been sailed in distant challenges or events . But no model yacht configured like Wild Oats , the new Pyewacket and Morning Glory, Open 60’s,mini6.5’s, Mari Cha, Maiden HongKong, Genuine Risk ECT,ECT has done this anywhere(to the best of my knowledge). And thats the point: a high powered ,high tech speed machine that mimics the state of the art ocean racing machines being produced now! Spinnaker flying , keel canted and the skipper following in a PLANNING powerboat screaming at the top of his lungs:“Yeeha!!”.
Now that would be exciting fun…
Making a boat sail autonomously wouldn’t be very hard if someone was at all smart with electronics. A boat the size of the current AMYA AC class 80" (very similar to the AC15’s) could easily carry the electronics and handle sea conditions. We already have GPS chartplotters that can be interfaced with autopilots and windvanes that can self steer to waypoints or sail to an apparent wind direction for a full size boat. If someone was smart with electronics making up a box to read the NMEA data and a model sized windvane would get you to steering the course. We already have the rudder servo. Just need to make an NMEA to servo output converter. Devise some electronic to read the windvane readings to adjust sail position and some algorithm for tacking if you end up going upwind.
As has already been pointed out. Racing offshore isn’t new. In Detroit we already do a once a year regatta on Lake St Clair that has been held in pretty hairy conditions.
I thought we’d gor rid of the “why do you want to design a new boat” questions. The AMYA AC class might be big enough, but its based on ACC class boats. Right? Do you really think an americas cup boat would stand up against a modern maxi, which weigh roughly the same, and are roughly the same length. A maxi has a mast around 4m taller, and boom 3m longer. A maxi planes easily offwind. Genuine Risk (a maxi in build in australia) is predicted to be able to sail at the windspeed in winds up to 30knots. This is an offshore racer we are talking about, not a match racer.
You wanted a boat to sail offshore. I’m using the AC as an example. They do plane easily offwind. In full size boats I’m sure that an IACC won’t stand up to any of the W60’s or other type boats. From a model perspective and existing boats. It and the Wheeler are probably the best existing models for an offshore race. If you want to make something new no one is stopping you. Don’t yell at us for suggesting that there are already boats out there suitable for what you want to do which is sail in “coastal” conditions.
Ok, you’ve proved your point, yes there are boats out there already that can do it so obviosly there is no point in designing any new boats ever. Sorry, but this forum really is starting to sound that way, you want a decent discussion to talk about the actual design of a boat, and you get slammed. If every one in the sailing industry always thought like this we would all be racing Arks. I started this thread in the hope we could have a disscusion about areas of design and maybe between us design a boat that someone might be able to actualy build and sail. I was hoping we would be talking about things like rockerlines, foil profiles and area, displacemt:length ratios etc, etc… But it seems thats imposible. I give up.
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