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I still would like to know what your thinking is on design here.
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I’m not sure what you are refering to?
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
…Mast step arrangement…
I think there are plusses and minusses to both Keel and Deck Stepped Mast arrangements. In terms of overall tune & I am fairly certain there are no major differences in speed or pointing ability.
From what I can see:
The keel stepped arrangement limits you to choice in fin/bulb/ rudder configuration. In order to balance many boats compensation will have to be made in getting the mast in a proper position should you choose to change the depth or ballast in your boat. A rudder change may trigger this as well. In order to have multiple mast positions you will have to build a trunk arrangement for the mast with a mast tube to slide fore and aft. This may add some weight to the boat. Additionally the mast itself will have to be more substantial to eliminate shrouds and other hardware. The advantages from what I can see are the ability to carry both swing rigs and conventional rigs. Less hardware required to support the mast therefore less presail tuning required. Repeatability in trim is much easier for a keel stepped rig. A deck stepped rig is suitable for unlimited fore and aft arrangements therefore in those classes that allow discretion in underwater boat trim you can make most any rig balance most any underwater setup within reason. The tunability/performance in a deck stepped mast is at least equal to a keel stepped arrangement. The overall construction of the boat and mast is simpler and possibly lighter.
I have used both on my one meter and I don’t really see a difference in performance either way. I originally had it keel stepped, I didn’t like the balance and the restictions placed on the boat due to that position so I scrapped it last winter and deck stepped the boat, speed, pointing and overall balance were more to my liking. I find that I move the mast forward(up to an inch) in increasing wind conditions to carry the A rig as long as possible while maintaining upwind control…this works for me on this particular boat. I also have an M with a keel stepped swing rig. I can pop in a rig attach the sheets tighten the luffs and go. I have excellent repeatability in tune and performance and the swing rig is often the way to go in the M class. I can also pop in a shroudless yet conventional B rig when necessary. I like the keel stepped M but I have a trunk which is necessary to slide rigs fore and aft when changing fins from deep to shallow or vice versa. If I were working on some new boat with little track record I would definitely start playing with deck stepped rigs. If the boat is a known quantity and well developed (Gregs One Meter) then the keel stepped is just as good in tune yet quick and easy to set up and sail well repeatedly.
Greg
I was thinking that a person could use mast bend to add or remove fullness in the whole sail since the outhaul only effects the bottom of the sail. I think that’s what you were asking.
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
[:-sleep]
Sorry Don. For some reason I though you were thinking about making a keel step mast arrangement. Sometimes these threads tend to confuse me on just what we were talking about.
[:-banghead]
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by Don
Greg
I was thinking that a person could use mast bend to add or remove fullness in the whole sail since the outhaul only effects the bottom of the sail. I think that’s what you were asking.
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>[:-paperbag]I have heard that people do this…[:-idea]
I thought masts were s’posed to be S-shaped…
There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Kenneth Graeme, Wind in the Willows.
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by greg V
[:-sleep]
Sorry Don. For some reason I though you were thinking about making a keel step mast arrangement. Sometimes these threads tend to confuse me on just what we were talking about.
[:-banghead]
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Actually I am. I think I could retro-fit a keel-step in my last two boats. If I make a flattened tapered tube with a flange around the top I could cut a matching hole in the deck(after I determine the optimum mast position)and slide the tube in. I would carefully drill a hole in the keelson to pin the tube in place.The ram could be attached to the old deck step. The problems being I would need longer masts and then I would have to build a new sail box(I just finished a box to hold two suits.
Unless-
Could I build a tapered pin or a short section of fishing rod and use it as a removable mast extension? Actually I can see where a person could build a simple adaptor to swap back and forth from deck to keel stepped-if he wanted to.
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”> I was thinking that a person could use mast bend to add or remove fullness in the whole sail since the outhaul only effects the bottom of the sail. I think that’s what you were asking.
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island <hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”></font id=“quote”>
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>[:-paperbag]I have heard that people do this…[:-idea]
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Is there something wrong with sailing with reverse bend in the mast(other than looking funny)? I was also thinking that you could use the mast bend as an aid to sail making. ie. If you found your boat consistantly sailed better with reverse bend you would put a little more luff round in your next set of sails.
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island
Don,
I think you are overthinking this…
The shape of the mast should have no effect on boatspeed by itself. Rather, mast bend effects the sail shape and the sail shape effects boatspeed. So if you find that your boat sails better with reverse bend, it is because it is favorably affecting the sail shape. To then change the sail cut to suit that mast bend would cancel out whatever positive effect the bend was having on the sail shape.
The sails are the engine of the boat. The job of the mast is to support the sails so that they have the optimal shape and optimal position to provide the best speed, balance and response of the boat. Try not to think of the mast as a stand alone item. Rather think of it as part of the sail system.
Will Gorgen
<blockquote id=“quote”><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial, Helvetica” id=“quote”>quote:<hr height=“1” noshade id=“quote”>Originally posted by wgorgen
Don,
I think you are overthinking this…
The shape of the mast should have no effect on boatspeed by itself. Rather, mast bend effects the sail shape and the sail shape effects boatspeed. So if you find that your boat sails better with reverse bend, it is because it is favorably affecting the sail shape. To then change the sail cut to suit that mast bend would cancel out whatever positive effect the bend was having on the sail shape.
The sails are the engine of the boat. The job of the mast is to support the sails so that they have the optimal shape and optimal position to provide the best speed, balance and response of the boat. Try not to think of the mast as a stand alone item. Rather think of it as part of the sail system.
Will Gorgen
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Not quite what I meant. If your boat sails best with reverse bend you cut your next set of sails so they will have the same shape with a straight mast.I think that’s a little clearer.
Thanks
Don
Vancouver Island