Diagonal Measurement Poll now open

Deed of Gift!

Deed of Gift.

Hi bozs279,

My replay, as was called for, was “just for fun”. Even though it was meant as a tongue-in-cheek reply, I would remind moth533 that having the money allows one to hire those with the skills and abilities he refers to, so that they can do the job for you. Actually, as a reply to the question as asked, I rather liked it.:slight_smile:

Now, I’ll admit I’m a little slow sometimes, so I must ask you to explain how/if “Deed of Gift” is actually the answer that is correct. I can understand how the term might apply to the America’s cup (the cup itself, but not necessarily the race, America, or sailing as such), and as “legal speak” how it would apply to many other things, just not sure how “in America it applies to sailing”.


There is a whole lot of disscussion in the international sailing community around the America’s Cup Race, what the Deed of Gift allows in terms of a challenge and a race, and there have been actual court cases conducted to try to achieve resolution. It has been intersting to watch from the sidelines, so my answer was “just for fun” and may not be correct. Come to think of it, these 3 words actually impede sailing, can I take back my answer?

If you look at the rules of the Coppa d’Italia (the prize for national teams at the Footy Euro GP) you will find that they explicitly excclude the jurisdiction of the New York Supreme Court. We think ahead in Footy Land!


Hi All , just a quick question , do any other development classes use the “Box” measurement method , if so any links to their Class Rules?

Am not familiar with all the northern hemisphere classes.

Cheers ,


The only one I’m aware of is the UK 36 inch Restricted Class. The UK MYA seems to have moved the rules to the members-only area, which seems a bit, er, exclusive of them :slight_smile:

In full-size boats, the term “box rule” is often used to describe class rules with fixed dimensions on things like LOA and LWL, and “rating rule” for rules where the designer can make tradeoffs between, say, sail area and LWL.

Formula 48 (multihull) is a very basic “box” rule - 48"/1.2 mtr. on each SIDE, and maximum sail area. A few additional and sundry items - more than one hull, and booms/masts are included in sail area measurement if too large a diameter, no kite sails.


see my lawyer…

in Big boats the TP52 is a “Box Rule”, but not the same sort of box as for the Footy.

in big boats the TP52 is a “Box Rule”, but not the same kind of box as the Footy class.

I did find the http://www.ircssa.org/ which is an RC sailing organization, but they don’t appear to use water. They do have a “Box Rule” that, at first glance, looks similar to the Footy class.

If this thread is getting remotely serious, the whole point (and genius) of the box rule is to provide reliable, consistent measurement wihout the complications of a refeence plane.

Having done a pretty good job of this, they made the capital mistake of calling the boat a Footy, because of the size of the box. If they had called it anything else, their would have been no emotional hassle about using the diagonals.

If Bill or Brett has any historical angles on this, it would be nice to know.


The MYA 36 inch Restricted Rule requires that the hull shall fit into a box measuring internally 36 x 9 x 11 inches. The rudder, bowsprit and deck fittings may protrude and the box has a slot specifically to provide for transom hung rudders. The all up weight may not exceed 12 pounds. There are prohibitions on centre boards and on punt and pram hull forms, but no other restrictions.

The boat may be tilted in the box. If used, this relaxation is used to place the deck line (with no sheer) level with the upper edge of the box. The idea was to get as big and as deep a hull as possible. More recent designs have gone below the max displacement and tend not to go for this form of tilting. So far as I am aware no boat has made use of a diagonal placement to gain hull length.


Angus - I first ran across the name “Footy” on Brett’s web site, long before there was talk of a box rule. My first Footy design, “Bantam”, was pre-box rule. Bantam was broad, 7.5 inches across at the maximum deck beam, and wouldn’t fit into the proposed measurement box. The powers that made up this rule adopted the box over my objections, and eventually they ended up begrudgingly grandfathering my design.

Personally, I’ve never cared for the name “Footy”. Like being overruled on the box idea I had several other suggestions that gained no traction. I think that “Footy” is too cute. A diminutive size boat, which takes advantage of the latest and lightest r/c gear and components, should have a more serious moniker. I think that a lot of model yacht sailors dismiss this class partly because of the name. But that is just my two cents, and my opinion never seems to sway the OGs.

My guess is that if you dig back you’ll find the term, and the notion of a 12" boat, first popularized by Mark Steele in his “Windling World” magazine.



When did they change it? The rule I have been building my boats to is:

940mm long x 229mm wide by 279mm deep. That’s 37x9x11 to allow for minimum 10mm bumper.

Rig, sails, and fittings can project above the box.

Rudders may be rotated and lowered to fit inside the box (no mention of a slot).

Rudder no more the 1/2" thick. [I could never figure this one out.]

Aluminum or wood spars, one bowsprit or bumpkin 20mm dia max.

It is a bit unfriendly for the MYA to hide the class rules behind the members-only firewall :slight_smile:



Hi Earl

You are undoubtedly right, having looked at the Rule for the purpose of building to it. I was working from a copy of the Rule as it was when I was building to it.

I guess the Rule was changed at the time of the metrication of the International Rules, but the MYA, as well as hiding things on their site, are getting very lax in keeping up an archive of their decisions. Doing business by email and electronic conference is fine, but it doesn’t leave an archive trail for historians like me.