I didn’t know the plan was the one from Steve’s book…mea culpa to Steve for offering a copy.
When the day comes for me to get around to building boats instead of all this ballot and admin s*** I’ll do my own design in the spirit of the originals, rather than copy one. In a way, that seems more authentic.
I would like to get a copy of Steve’s book, though, so his address would be appreciated.
Thanks…Bill
Well Hi gang. I have been reading your posts and I can tell you they are very interesting. Yes I have written 3 books on Balmain Bugs. 2 I have had printed and they are “Sydney’s Model Racing Skiffs” and “Model Racing Skiffs of Australia”. I have a further book , Untitled at the present that needs some art work done to it before producing it.
My subject is really Historic Model Yachts and Balmain Bugs seems to be right in with this theme. It was fun writing both books and they are both selling well.
Ian HB is a mate and I first met him in 83’ in Australia. He keeps talking to me about plans but I keep talking to him about books and I’m afraid we are not making much progress on this.
You see in gathering material for writing books it comes from many sources. This is gleaned patiently out by the author to get his reader (of the book) a good read with good photos. What we don’t like is for “other” coming along and taking our “gleanings” away as in photos, where it shows a picture of an early 2 fter in Kogarah bay in Sydney, Australia.
So to start you all off in your discussions on Balmain Bugs just a few thoughts about understanding them and this is in no order. 1#The keel must slide. The boat won’t sail if the keel doesn’t slide.2# The boat needs plenty of reserved bouyancy.3# The boat historically does not have much- to any freeboard. 4#The boat is not a little model yacht.
Plans : well there is a theme that goes with these boats and it is:individual thoughts on designs and individual ways of building them. In other words try to design a boat with as much bouyancy as possible. Forget about modern design for you have unlimited SA to push it along. The thing is that you are designing something to carry a rig of major proportions the quickest around a course. The following chapters are about how to accomplish it! Get the sliding rig right and the rest is easy.
Steve
I’m open to questions if anyone has any?
Steve:)
It took me a while to find these, which come from Bruce Stannard’s book Bluewater Bushmen, but it’s worth a look if only to show why the model skiffs carry such outrageous rigs. The full size ones did too and without deep fins and lumps of lead. An 18 footer would have a whole Rugby League team treble banked on the gunnel, (no trapezes then) with a boy in the bottom of the boat baling for dear life with a tin tray.
Russell
Hi Steve, nice to have you aboard.
I’d like to thank you, as well as Russell Potts and Earl Boebert, for the great contributions you have made in your respective countries documenting the history of model yachting. Much appreciated by many of us, I’m sure.
The Balmain Bug is sort of a natural for us to be interested in…perhaps the original Footy.
A few years ago John Snow said he thought he had a couple copies of your books in his garage, and that he’d let me know when he got things straightened out in there. Still waiting! Ian gave me contact info for you so I can order your books, but I’m probably not the only one who’s been trying to locate copies. If you’re not opposed to the net exposure, could you post info here on how to order?
Thanks again…Bill H
G’day Bill, I try not to “expose” myself too much on the Web. But you can get my details of an add for the Balmain Bug at this site
www.rcyachts.net/nautic12/
The Nautic 12 site is just something else I do. Apart from doing Historical stuff for the ARYA as you said, similar to Earl and Russell.
The Balmain Bug thing has been going for many years but nothing was done , like putting pen to paper to tell the story. What has surprised me most was the fondness of people to even concenplate building them , for I was of the impression that the thing with them of actually leaning over the rowing boat adjusting them would have turned off most people, Big Time.
The whole question these days is how to control them and this has to be R/C and the only real problem is sliding the keel. Answer that and all the big problems are over. I had thought of a winch/ rope affair attached to the keel with a S/S spring on the other side of the keel to push & pull the keel? Anyhow I think it is worth considering using the K.I.S.S. principle. In fact the keel is not hard to slide when it is in hull floating mode.
Steve
Bill H. - Sliding rig system retooled for sliding keel? Wadda yah think?
I have given the idea some thought, Niel. Moveable ballast isn’t legal in Footys, of course, but maybe we could have a Vintage Footy group, like Earl and John’s VM group?
Bill H
I don’t think that you should limit the Balmain Bug design to the footy rules or box. As Steve says the sliding keel is essential and if you look at photos of old 12 inchers it looks as if they have long keels closer to a current day Marblehead that anything else.
You could make a centerboard trunk and use Bill H’s sliding rig setup to move the keel back and forth in the box. Perhaps a better route is to make a pivoting keel that swings back when the sails are let out. With a long keel the amount of rotation needed to move the bulb to the aft end of the boat might only be 15 to 20 degrees. Bill H has the right design for moving the keel with a two arm sail winch. The long arm controls the sail and a short arm with a rigid link would move the upper end of the keel/centerboard.
Dave
As Dave says, forget classing the Balmain Bug with any association to the FOOTY.
There is no connection at all.
Bugs can be any size and have no restrictions on depth or beam. They are not and never will be FOOTYs.
Perhaps this thread should be put somewhere else.
Could I say these are all good thoughts but keep in mind it has to be simple! The winch method is simple. Any apparatus that is put under the boat is not going to hold the boat back in performance.
The keel we are talking about here should be about 15" long and about 2" wide.
The thing that is the problem with footy is (and I’m no expert on footy) is it doesn’t carry much sail area. A 12" bug should carry about 800 sq" in the No3 rig.
We should not think of this little boat in comparison with other model yachts. For it is not a model, as such, in the same sense of the word.
Are you sure about the 800 sq. inches? That’s more than a 1M has, or what marbleheads use. Maybe you mean 80 sq inches?
No Tomo, trust me, he means 800.
Hopefully we will see that we are not talking about Footy here or anyhting like that type of boat . Ian was right when he said that this is a seperate class and it sails in a totally different way to what we were all brought up to know about “normal” sailing boats.
Steve and Ian, I agree completely…the Bugs are unique, and if we can revive them, it should be as they were…not subject to any other class rules.
The only reason I mentioned Footys, is that this thread is in the Footy forum, and with all the hoopla about rules lately, I didn’t want anyone to think that a moveable keel would be legal on a Footy!
So back to talking about Balmain Bugs…do you think it would be better to revive them as free sailors, or would R/C give them a better chance of future success?
Bill H
Future success is a difficult thing to asertain. What ever happens it has to be R/C unless you have the odd 12ft rowing skiff around and a mate to row it.
The basis of what we are talking about is a boat that doesn’t go through the water in a normal way but something that moves through the water pushed by a big sail area. Now this is not hard to do . It just means in the normal sense that the boat is not on top of the water and it is a unit of Hull ,Keel and Sail area combining to get the unit around the course.
So why is the boat short in proportions? Well in older times these boats were transported on public transport, by Bicycle or Shank’s pony (walking). And to carry a boat on a Bicycle with masts, sails, keel and hull is explained in the book.So the boat had to be portable.
The shape of the boat is what fools people’s thinking it is slow in performance.In fact the big sail area pushes the boat to incrediable speeds with a strong wind behind it. Some recorded memories of sailing faster than two able body men could row after it. It a bit like recording the Worlds fastest bailing machine , which is two frighten men bailing for all they’re
worth.
Steve
Found this drawing also,might help?
Brett,
Thanks for the link to the pictures of the Bugs. Those are by far the best photos I’ve seen. I’m so spoiled by youtube and the like that I can’t believe I haven’t managed to locate any video. Can you tell from the first picture what is going on with the rig? I know they are freesailers so I’m guessing the topmost headsail is cleated to the “wrong” side for the apparent wind at the time the photo was taken. I need to get busy on a foam prototype! Talk about a muscleboat. These excite me the way a funny car or Outlaw sprint car do… ridiculous horsepower applied without restraint!
Take care,
Brent
Hi Brent,
That would be the spinnaker,in days gone by it was common practise to sheet the spinnaker inside the forestay.
I have books here showing early aussie and kiwi dinghies sailing this way.