Steve, If I may comment…
You seem new to model multihulls? If so I would advise against trying to build this boat as a working model at 1metre size, it would need to be built very light and may not turn out quite as you would like. If you’re wanting to try a multihull I would go with an established design to the Mini40/F48 class to start with as someone will have sorted the compromises so that you can be reasonably sure of a boat that will sail well.
Ray
Hi Steve -
well - if you asked me in 2000, I would have said the Mini40/F48. That was before the terrorist attacks of September 2001. Since then, there has been a marked difficulty in airline travel - especially with boats of 48 inches/1.2 meter in size. This is why the 1 Meter looked promising - but once assembled, still a big platform. Thought was the 1 Meter owners could use sails off their monohulls to give multihulls a try. Most recently, the RG-65 Class monohull hull has stirred a lot of interest, and those of us interested in multihulls opted to try an M65 multi (about 26 inches long). These were started introduced this year, and Siri has really made a promotional effort by having both a trimaran and a catamaran sailing in very short time. He indicates he has received and sent out over 250 sets of plans, although most are for Europe, France and England. Very few to here in the U.S.
I have seen blogs/posts of guys building the F48/Mini40 here in the US but they are spread out pretty far. No real “hot bed”. I must point out they are the easiest to fit radio gear inside - but they are B-I-G !!!
1 Meter boats, - I am aware of 4 - again, all over the country
M65 - I don’t have any handle on them. I started on both a trimaran and a catamaran this summer, but probably won’t hit the water before winter. Still building the RG65 monohulls for a few people on commission.
Just by size alone, the M65 would appear to be the most inviting - but on a fun to sail factor - the 1 meter or F48 sure is a sight on the water. All are hard to sail well - you cannot let your mind wander. If you are interested - try the small one, as costs and time will be reasonable. If you like it and get hooked - you can always build one of the bigger one.
I’m going to look for a vaccuum former that might have an interest in low volume M65 size boats - but tooling costs and expected low sales numbers may make it prohibitively expensive.
Where are you located here in the US? It might make a difference if you are within driving range of a boat that I am aware of. Then you will have someone close by to at least sail and compare tuning ideas.
Also, keep us informed if you make a decision. Will provide as much help and advise that we can.
Dick
Steve -
another thought … take a look at what “Siri” (screen name) is doing for promoting multihulls.
Visit his website at: http://www.rcsails.com/rc65.htm and then look at his “shop”. He is currently selling kits for both the 65M and Formula48 size boats. The kits - less rig and radio gear seem to be very competitively priced when compared to the time/effort involved by a home builder.
Suggest you buy rigs from here in states to keep costs lower, and also look at the new 2.4 GHz radios. His base kit for the F48 size trimaran is just under $600 for a 48" x 48" platform (3 hulls). Unless you have no value for your labor - it will be hard to beat this price. Even the 65M sized kit at under $300 can be viewed as good pricing compared to building.
I know many want to build to save money, but few home builds ever see the water due to the complexity and time. Either of these plus rig and radio would have you on the water in less than a month ! Take a look.
I am not making any implied recommendation of the product or builder - only pointing out a reasonably priced set of multihulls to eliminate a lot of building and allowing you to get on the water. Plus, once built, you can always sell it to a friend and do another - thereby building a “local fleet”.
Dick
Hello Ray - I am interested in the carbon lay-up and bagging process but have no experience with this. How did you learn about this and are there good references available on-line?
Thanks.
Trent
Trent, have a look at this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD1jImn5hnU
There’s a bit editied out in the middle of this which is the applcation of peel-ply and the wrapping on the item in breather/soak-up fabric before bagging the item. Peel-ply serves two functions, firstly it acts as a release layer - it absorbs resin but after cure you just peel it off, along with anything outside of it, such as the breather cloth (if you but the breather cloth straight onto the mould it will stick to it and you’ll have a devil of a job to abrade it off) - secondly after peeling it off it leaves the surface of the item keyed’ so that anything epoxied to it will have a much stronger bond (its important to be aware that cured epoxy will only produce a physical bond, not a chemical bond). The approach in this video isn’t far from the balsa sandwich approach, just foam instead of balsa and lots of carbon (too much for our purposes) instead of light glass. You should also be aware that you need to be able to adjust the level of the vacuum you apply as too high a vaccum will crush foam/balsa.
Incidentally, the shells for our hulls don’t generally have a core and only a couple of layers of laminate so would seem to be very flexible based on the guy’s ‘playing card’ demo near the beginning of the video but you have to remember that we’re produxing curved shapes that themselves produce inherent strength (take a piece of paper - in itself it has no great stiffness but now roll the same paper into a tube and for the same amount of material you have something that has much more strength).
There are some other videos on Youtube but those below seem to have an error at the moment, however, just search Youtube for ‘carbon vacuum bag’ and you should find some more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxrzINMkmz4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPXn038ahD4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQCZo_YfGY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgBSMmqzSJM&feature=related
You can get Vacuum bag supplies here:
http://www.acp-composites.com/home.php
For my setup, I purchased a vacuum pump on ebay for £50 (around $80 I think). I don’t have any of the clever switch/resevoir arrangements but just run the pump continuosly while the epoxy is curing. The quality of my mouldings has improved a lot using the vaccum bagging process. There’s been a discussion about water ingres through pinholes in hand laminated hulls and if you hold one of my old mouldings up to the light you could see them but with vaccum bagged mouldings I don’t seem to have any pinholes.
Anyway, hope that helps.
Ray
Trent, I should have said that if you make your hulls by planking in balsa over shadows you’ll probably not be able to vaccum bag the outer laminate as it would distort/crush the structure.
Ray
Dear Claudio,
My name is Jose henrique, living in London, and me and my friend that live in Brasil are following your drawing from Alinghi and we are ready to start to produce one Alinghi with 2 meters in carbon fiber and I would like to ask you if you can post the draws of sail plans for this boat;
Congratulation for you excellent development
I am waiting for your drawings
Trade Winds
Jose (NaveganteSolitario)
Sorry Jose, I do not have any drawings for 2mt long boats. I do have instead a 1.5mt long drawings made for Gilles and used in Quebec- Canada. see below.
Having said that, you can use the actual AC120 sail plans of any of the AC120 drawing from : http://www.nonsolovele.com/Plans&Models.shtml and enlarge it to the square of the scale ratio as : 200cm/120cm = 1.666 x 1.66 = 2.77 this is the multiplier factor. If you chose the sail plan of 74dm² x 2.77 = 204dm² . 204 dm² is the total sail surface you need for the 2mt boat. 35% to 45% of this surface could be dedicated to jib, unless a genoa is used and this case can be larger . I do not have experience with so large boats therefore I can’t be more precise, sorry
Cheers
ClaudioD
Dear Claudio,
Thank you so much about your prompt response, but I think that are an misundertood because I am thinking to build the Alinghi, your design, but the Multihull, not the Monohull. I am really start to develope your drawn for the CNC cutter. So, my question about the Sail Plans is for the Alinghi multihull that participated in the match against the BMW Oracle multihull. I am going to develope this boat with 2 meters from your drawns.
I am just ask your help for develope the plans for the mast of this multihull that you drawn.
Best Regards
Jose
Hi Jose,
I’m sorry , I don’t recall having drawn the multihull Alinghi 5 sail plan, also because it is not my speciality.
I took this picture from google and scaled to 1/100 - dimensions in mm, just in case if may be of any help !
Cheers
ClaudioD
Hi Jose,
I think you will find that the rig Claudio scaled would not be good for a r/c 2M multihull. You will get a better idea of the sail ratios by looking at some of the 2M videos on YouTube, there are several. Mostly these big multihulls seem to sport small jibs, most of the sail area is in the mainsail. The rigs are also pretty far aft compared to the photo of the full size Alinghi, this is to compensate for not having crew weight to shift around to keep the boat in trim. Many model multihulls are prone to pitchpoling, that is burying the leeward float’s bow and having the boat “trip” over it. Having the rig farther aft helps with this problem a bit.
I recall seeing a video log of a 2M build, but I didn’t bookmark it so I can’t give you a link. You may find more info through the BMMA site. This is the British multihull group and they have quite a few 2M boats that are active in the UK.
Jose -
to add on to Niel’s post - if it is a multihull you want to build at 2 meters - you may want to do a search for 2 Meter Multihull Class Rules.
See here: http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/showthread.php?2314-2-Meter-Multihull-Class-Rules
Basically - there is no sail area size limit for the 2 meter boats like there is for the 1.2 meter (Mini40/F48) size. The limiting factor on a 2 meter cat/trimaran is the height of the mast which is a maximum of 2800 mm above the deck of a trimaran or cross beam on a cat.
Of course - if you have no intent to race - its size is whatever looks good to you.
Dick
Hi Claudio,
thanks for the help and for the picture. Its give an excellent idea about the size and we, me and my firiend, are ready to start to build this model.
In the same time I still search, how told me Dick and Steve, and looking at the videos of the 2 meters class videos in the you tube to search a better sail plan for the model that you drawn.
I have a friend, a naval architech, that are help me in this development and he also give an ideai to put in the Alinghi the same kind of mast of the BMW Oracle.
It s a new conception and can be interesting.
After I start to build I will keep update with photos all my progress in this project.
Thanks in advance
Regards
Jose
enjoy yourself, we will be keeping waithing for pictures !
cheers
ClaudioD